Great Escape Podcast episode 23 - Kenyon Ziztka rethinking the American Dream


:- [Stuart] This is the Great Escape Podcast, episode 23.
- [Intro Announcer] We are go for liftoff in T minus 30. All systems are go.
- [Stuart] And today on the Great Escape podcast, I am talking to Kenyon Zitzka, who left a factory job and now has his dream job out on the ocean. Kenyon, welcome to the show. And tell us about that escape.
- [Kenyon] Well, thanks for havin' me, first off. And yeah, like you said, I recently, well, couple years ago I, you know, made a leap, moved from upstate New York down to Charleston, South Carolina to get back out to sea. I'm a military veteran, I just retired from the Navy as well. And you know, I was in upstate New York working that, you know, quote unquote American Dream job at a factory, you know, the place where you're supposed to put 20, 30 years in, get that retirement, then sail off into the distance. But, you know, workin' that job I found myself pretty miserable. I was drivin' one hour one way just to get to that job. My wife and I, we just had our daughter Piper, and I really, you know, that was a big wake up call, or the biggest wake up call. There were a couple other events before that that kinda, you know, really started awakening me to the other way to make a living, such as what you and I are doin' with our podcasts, and starting these alternative and multiple-income streams. So that's kind of, at very high level, my journey. I dunno where you wanna go from that, but happy to dive into any other aspect you wanna dive into.
- [Stuart] Well, I guess the first question is, what was it that really got you to the point where you knew that a change had to come. You hadn't yet necessarily worked out what it was, but how did you come to that realization, you know what, this has to change?
- [Kenyon] Yeah, well, it really started to change for me, I'd say back in, back up to when I graduated from engineering school. I did 10 years active duty in the military, then transitioned to the reserve side to pursue my engineering degree. And that first job that I obtained after I graduated engineering school moved us down to State College, Pennsylvania. And at the time, you know, my wife and I, we were doin' the, were tryin' to get pregnant. We had to have some fertility intervention procedures to get to that point. And while we were livin' down there, we unfortunately had a miscarriage. And at that time, I had fallen and broken my leg working around our home down there in Pennsylvania. And what that really woke me up to, I was fat, I was out of shape, I was, you know, just pluggin' along, just kinda moseying through life, not really, I kinda lost my flair and zest for life, I guess. I just wasn't as active as I used to be. And when I broke my leg at that time, and then my wife and I had that miscarriage, that really woke me up to like, hey, you know, we don't know how long we have, we don't, you know, tomorrow's not guaranteed. And that kinda got me in gear, at least on the physical fitness side. And that got me into some of these crucible-style fitness events, like GoRuck or Spartan Races, things like that. So that really got my physical fitness and health back going. And then through those events, I started to get into the personal development side, started reading books like Mark Divine. It really, you know, just starting to do a deep dive into those personal development books. I wasn't reading, so that led me to develop my mental side of myself. And that's really where it started and what's led me to be where I'm at today. Ultimately, getting into all that stuff kinda helped me craft a vision for myself and really narrow down what I want in my life and how I wanna live my life instead of just singing to society's tune and doing the things that we're told we should do or we ought to do. You know, like buy the big house with a big mortgage, go to school, get all the school loans, you know, get the white picket fence, two and a half kids, you know, the dog. That was kinda how I was livin' my life, and all those experiences kinda woke me up to help me decide what I want instead of, like I said, singing to society's tune there.
- [Stuart] Yeah, and that's a really common story that I hear, that you've kind of gone into expectations of society or parents or peer group, and realize that that isn't where you really need to be for you. And was there a moment where you suddenly, or perhaps over a period of time, you knew that change had to happen? Was there a light bulb moment where you realized, actually, I can do this, I can make this change, it is possible for me to be successful here?
- [Kenyon] Sure, yeah. And there is one experience I can really look back on and say, this is where it all started to change, and that was, you know, like I said, I was recently retired from the Navy reserves. And if you're not familiar with what a reservist does, essentially, we do a drill weekend every month and then we have our annual two weeks, two to four weeks of training. And back in 2015, one of my friends, he was actually on active duty up in upstate New York, and he was local recruiter, then he went back to sea. And he asked me to come down to his ship because they were, they needed help gettin' out of a shipyard, a long shipyard period. And one of their positions was unfilled, so I went down there for a month and helped the ship out and filled in. And it really opened me up to what I enjoyed about the military, what I want to do, which was mentor and help other, you know, help sailors improve their selves, pass on the knowledge that I have. And that really lit the, rekindled the fire within me to do that. So I actually got back from that and talked to my wife and said, hey, you know what, this is really what I wanna do. I'm miserable here at this job, and this is what I wanna do. I wanna try to get back on active duty on board of a Navy ship goin' out to sea. And so, I started to look at options, the various options that were available to me. Ultimately, there weren't really any options for me because I was, I'd gotten to a point in my career where I could retire if I wanted to, very shortly, and I was at such an advanced pay grade that it would be expensive just to reactivate me and move my family down there. That's really what it boiled down to. But I set a vision for myself at that point. It was like, hey, this is what I wanna do. And then fast forward to today, the job I have, the oceanographic research ship is actually a former Navy torpedo testing ship. It's home-ported here in Charleston, South Carolina at the old Navy base. And my office used to be the senior enlistedmen's club here on base. So I set a vision for myself to get back on active duty, and ultimately it kinda worked out that way, because there's a lot of things about this job that are very similar to me bein' back on active duty. I'm in a military town, too. So it's very important that you set a vision for yourself and also, but not be so set on that particular version of your vision that you close yourself off to other options. Had I stuck to my guns and only focused on getting back on active duty, I would've never landed this job. So you know, I'm kinda dancing around it, but I hope that answers your question.
- [Stuart] Yeah, that's really interesting. And you bring up a really important point, which is that thing about a degree of flexibility, or a degree of, this is the direction I want to go in, but the route to actually get there may flex and twist, and you take serendipitous opportunities rather than sit there waiting for the perfect thing to crop up. You've kind of built it around yourself, and in a sense, what I'm hearing you not quite say is that the active duty in the military sense wasn't the be-all and end-all. What you wanted was to be mentoring people and back out at sea.
- [Kenyon] Exactly. And when you close yourself off to a very specific, particular version of your vision, that's not possible. And the other thing that I wanna touch on that you mentioned is that we can't wait for the perfect circumstances to start makin' those changes. And that's what I see with a lot of people that I talk to and work with is that they're waiting for very specific things to fall in place before they make that change. What I've found is that, move before you're ready, like, make those moves now, because you're going to be waiting a very long time for things to be perfect, or for things to work out exactly how you want them to work out. You need to start makin' moves, and you know, if your plan doesn't work, great. Just change it, flex, and pivot to the next subtask or opportunity that presents itself.
- [Stuart] Yeah. That really, really is important. In all the years I've been helping people start their own businesses, the number of times where a plan started at point A and got all the way through to, as we call it here in England, Zed, or Z for you on the other side of the Atlantic, in a nice linear sequence, is precisely zero. It's never happened like that. There's always some kind of detour or pivot or change in direction because something happens that you didn't see coming down the line. And you end up in a place that you couldn't have imagined. And more often than not, it's actually a better place than the one that you imagined.
- [Kenyon] Yeah, absolutely. And you know, the reason I started my podcast is also to help other people. And through the course of doin' that podcast, I've gotten into other business ventures that I would have never imagined myself bein' in. For example, real estate and raw land investing and flipping.
(laughs) I would never, you know, a year or two ago, I would've never, you know, seen myself doin' something like that. But you know, one thing leads to another. And when you kinda close yourself off to, you know, very specific things. And you know, the American Dream, if that's the way you're going and you don't have alternate versions or even just have an open mind about things, you're going to be, you're gonna be stuck in a particular spot for a long time.
- [Stuart] Yeah, absolutely. Now, one of the interesting things is, you end up out at sea for useful periods of time. How does that, your wife and family need to be supportive of a choice that essentially you're making there.
- [Kenyon] Well, that is the beauty about my job, is that I get to choose when I go out to see because I'm the port engineer for the ship. So I'm the shore side support and link for the ship. So for example, when the ship has to go into a shipyard or a drydock for maintenance, I write the maintenance requirements and specifications for the ship, and occasionally I'll go out to the ship, to horrible places like St. Thomas or Puerto Rico and visit the ship when they're visiting those ports and do ship visits to see what, you know, to lay eyes on the ship and see what actual maintenance needs to be done, take pictures, interact with the crew. So I have a lot of flexibility when it comes to that. So that is kinda built in to the job. And occasionally, they get to come with me. So that's kind of well taken care of, and you know, it's, yeah, there are some periods of time where I'm gone for a long time. But you know, my wife and daughter get a fulfilled and happy husband when I walk through the door. I don't have that worn-out, tired, you know, hey, I need an hour to myself when I walk through the door. They get an energetic and very present father when I walk through the door.
- [Stuart] That's a really interesting way of phrasing it,
'cause I've been that exhausted, worn out, grumpy, there with a sore head, husband and father. I think we've all walked that road at one time or another. And actually, now, I probably work harder than I ever have in my life. And yet, I'm enjoying myself. I come home, and for the most part, I'm fun to be with and happy, and yeah. So it is interesting, when you're that much more master of your own destiny, it is much easier to be present with your family. So there came a point where you had to hand in your notice at the day job, and go and make the flip. Or did you do sort of a soft transition?
- [Kenyon] No. In fact, when I, I was on, how did it go? Oh yeah, that's right. I was, again, on my active two weeks of training. And (laughs) that's a funny story in of itself, is I was actually out to dinner with some colleagues from the Navy. And in fact, a World War Two veteran who's a member of our military community. And this is like, two days before Christmas, and I get a phone call from (laughs) from NOAA, the organization I work for, like hey, we wanna interview. It was a loud restaurant, so they were like, hey, we wanna interview you on Tuesday. I was like, great, Thursday, got it. So long story short, they called me on that Tuesday and I though it was a Thursday. So I did the interview. I was like, yeah, I want the job. And then I went downstairs to my wife, I was like, hey, how does Charleston, South Carolina sound? Like hey, we've never been there. So two days later I was leavin' for my training in Norfolk, Virginia. And my wife followed me down a few days later, we did the whole windshield tour. And then we were like, yes, we wanna do this. So essentially, I was on my military duty when I made the decision. So I prepared everything, and when I walked back through the door when I got back, I was like, hey, I got somethin' to tell you guys, I'm leavin' in a month. So it was quite a whirlwind. It was just like, when you know somethin's right, you just do what needs to be done, no matter how uncomfortable it is. Like, we made the decision. I gotta do what I gotta do. You know, there were some people that were, you know, that weren't enthusiastic about me leaving. But ultimately, it was a toxic situation and it was a pretty easy decision for me to make. And you kwow, I keep in touch with a small number of folks at that plant. And pretty much all of my colleagues have also moved on to different jobs. And some of those guys were there 20 plus years. So I don't keep in touch with those guys very much at all, but I would tend to believe that that might have inspired some folks to make some changes. And like, hey, you know what? Kenyon's makin' a big move here. Like, he's getting what he wants in life. And I post a lot on Facebook about my adventures, and I'm sure that these adventures have trickled their way back to my former colleagues there. And they're like, hey, you know what, Kenyon's out to see, goin' to the Caribbean. He made a big change, what the hell are we doin'? So I think that ultimately, you know, making that uncomfortable, or havin' that uncomfortable conversation with my boss and my colleagues ultimately benefited them too.
- [Stuart] Yeah. And that's a point we've brought up on the podcast in previous episodes, is change is contagious. If one person begins to really change their life around, then the people around them will see that, and some of them will make, use that as the encouragement they need to make the change themselves. But also, there's that sense that, if you look at the five people you spend the most time with, kinda your behavior will be the average of their behaviors. If they're overweight, you're likely to be overweight, if they smoke, you're likely to smoke. And actually, once one person starts to pull away from that average position, other people will begin to change their behaviors as well. And kind of what you have to hope is that it's a positive change. So you've got the day job with NOAA. You're on shore a lot of the time, but out at sea sometimes. And you've got your podcast as well. So there's a blended career happening here. Tell us about the kind of non day job side of it.
- [Kenyon] So you know, I started my podcast because I wanted to, you know, I knew I was gonna eventually retire from the military, and in fact, I did back in March. So I wanted to keep helping and mentoring people to live life on their terms and build the systems and habits and routines that they need to live life on their terms. And one of the things that I struggled with when I transitioned from active duty to reserve was that that discipline didn't quite carry over from the military into my day to day personal life. And it was like I was kind livin' two different, you know, lives. Inside the military, I'd be very structured, disciplined. And then I would flip the switch off and go home and just let loose and not really have the structure and the discipline. And what I found was that that was not the right way to go, and you know, it's gonna sound cliche, but discipline is really the way to, livin' a disciplined life is the way that you get to freedom. And once I started doin' that for myself, I was like, man, I'm really fulfilled, I'm really accomplishing a lot in a short period of time. And I wanted to share this with the world and I wanted to have conversations with like-minded people. So that's what got me goin' on the podcast, and that's, you know, that's what I'm doing today, is interviewing people like Mark Divine, New York Times bestselling authors, things like that, so that I can, you know, it's a good excuse to have conversations with those types of people. And you know, it's just further inspiring me to help other people do that. So you know, it's, I'm takin' a quick break here from the day job to do this interview. I'm very lucky where I get to kinda dictate my own schedule and have the flexibility to do this. So that's also been a huge benefit of takin' this job is havin' that flexibility to do the podcast, do my real estate side hustle as well, and really just create that wealth in terms of not only just money, but knowledge and that freedom and the abundance that's available to all of us.
- [Stuart] And that sense of the freedom to decide when to duck out of the office and go and do an interview or get on with the side hustle or whatever it is, you're absolutely right, that if we don't bring a sense of discipline to that, you've then go the freedom to duck out and watch an hour of daytime TV and then another hour of daytime TV, and then oh, let's just watch a YouTube video, and all of a sudden, four hours of the day are gone, and actually, you haven't achieved anything. So the freedom has turned into waste.
- [Kenyon] Yeah. And I can really relate to that, because you know, I had this mental model in my head, like, when I got home from my day job, like, you just see on these sitcoms that you see on TV of like, the husband just crashing out on the couch for the night. And like, I just had that in my mind as like, that's what I'm supposed to do. And you know, that was something that I was doing, undisciplined. And there's nothing wrong with watching a YouTube video or watching some daytime TV as long as you are disciplined about it. And like, okay, I'm gonna take, like, I've accomplished some things, so therefore I'm gonna, you know, there is a reward pattern that I think we can go about our day-to-day routines with. Like hey, you know what, the way I structure my day is I have hour blocks where I will work for 50 minutes and then I have a weighted rucksack that I throw on, I take a 10 minute walk. I get some exercise in, I jam out to some music. I reward myself for maximizing that 50 minutes. And I accomplish more that way than I do if I were to just do random things throughout the day. Like, I just show up at work and see what comes my way and just react to random things. But you know, planning your day, structuring your day in a way that maximizes your production yet fulfills you and gives you that sense of like, okay, I accomplished something, I get to reward myself in a way. That's very important.
- [Stuart] Yeah, absolutely. And the 50 minute thing, I think, is something that we see in a lot of people is, that sort of 50 minute, work hard, focus, do something, set yourself whatever goal it is, even if it's relatively trivial, and then get up and move around. Even if it's not a reward thing, it's just to get up and move around, get the blood flowing through your legs where you've been sat for a while. Especially those of us with sort of sedentary desk jobs. Actually, it's much higher productivity than just trying to muscle through the day and stay sat at the desk for four hours.
- [Kenyon] Yeah. And it's like, that sounds so boring, to sit at your desk
(laughs) for four hours. Like, who in their right mind would wanna do that? So if you can break up your day, man, it's--
- (laughs)
- [Kenyon] I'm sittin' here smilin', like, all right, let's get after it! But when I think about--
- Yeah, go do--
- [Kenyon] But when I think about four hours, I'm like, nah, no thanks.
- [Stuart] Absolutely. No, I can't do it. I just end up freaking out and not end up getting anything done. So this whole story is one that seems to be rooted in your desire for a life that was something more interesting, more fulfilling, than actually what you'd kind of been brought up to believe would be interesting and fulfilling.
- [Kenyon] Yeah, absolutely. I mean, if we look at what the average person does, you know, they graduate from high school, they go to college, they usually end up back in their hometown, near their parents. And there's nothing wrong with that. But like, that's what we're taught, or at least what I was taught, and I see what a lot of other people are taught is the thing to do. It's like, hey, you don't stray too far from the nest, you do somethin' that's safe, that makes sense, that's gonna be safe for you. It's this whole, like, safety bubble that we're taught we should stay within. And I hate to burst people's bubbles, but you're gonna be in for a very unfulfilled life. At least that's what I've found. And getting outside that bubble, expanding your experiences, getting new perspectives. That was the biggest thing that I took away from the military, was getting to see how other cultures lived, and seeing how other people find fulfillment. You know, there's, I remember readin' a story recently about, there was a fisherman leanin' up against his small, you know, rickety-lookin' boat, just relaxing on the beach. And this New York stock broker comes up, he's like, hey, you should add, you know, you can catch more fish, give him a bunch of tips, like hey, you can improve your boat, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Long story short, the point that the New York stock broker made was like, hey, you can then retire and sit on the beach and relax. And then the fisherman just said, what do you think I'm doin' right now? Like, we have these grand plans in our minds about how we should go about our lives, but it's actually pretty simple. If we can simplify our lives, if we can root out the drama, root out the extraneous things, I've found that simplifying your life is like, even if you are livin' that American Dream, simplifying your life will get you a greater sense of fulfillment. And I really think that's the first step is to just simplify your life. It's not that complicated. Like, I've got three simple rules that I live by, is to, don't be a dick. (laughs)
- [Stuart] (laughs)
- [Kenyon] Leave everybody and every situation better than you found it. And fulfill your own potential. Like, if we can do those three things, I think you're 80% of the way there.
- [Stuart] Absolutely. And the simplify thing comes through, time and again, when people just think like, built this life with car loans, mortgages, all of this complexity, because that's what life seemed to require. And actually stepping away from a bunch of those things just makes life a lot less stressful. Suddenly, the bottom line that you're havin' to bring in each month falls, so that reduces a bunch of stress. And you're not worried about whether the Ferrari gets scratched or not. I use that as an extreme example. Because you don't own the Ferrari!
- [Kenyon] Right. Yeah, I actually just had a conversation about this with a friend recently. And she was talkin' about how, you know, she was comparing and contrasting herself and her sister versus her brother. And it was like, hey, you know what, my brother's the only one who's married, has kids, owns his house. We just rent and we're single. Said, why is that a bad thing? Like, why are you lookin' at that as a bad thing? Like, if a hurricane comes through Charleston and wrecks your home, whose asset gets destroyed? It's not yours. Like, we're taught that these things that we ought to have are like, that's a marker of someone who's successful. Who's to say, who told you that? Like, who decided that for you? (laughs) It just blows my mind that we get locked in on these certain boxes that we need to check to appear successful. And we haven't decided that for ourselves. And that's really the, you know, what I want, one of the big things that I want people to take away from, whether you listen to me here or any other place, is that, who told you that that's what you need to do to be successful? Decide for yourself what that success looks like. Like, when we made the big move, we, I've owned four homes since 2003 'til 2017. When we moved down here, we said, no more. We're not, we're just gonna rent. And you know, maybe someone listens to that, oh, that's not what a responsible adult does in America. But who told you that? Like, who said that? Like, that's just what society tells us. I keep comin' back to this idea of like, hey, society tell us this. Well you know, owning a home and having a mortgage, that's a business. There's people out there that benefit from you owning a home, and there's also people that benefit from you renting from them. But we made the decision, like, hey, we don't wanna have all the headaches that come on with home ownership. We don't wanna have the headaches that come with having to pay mortgage every month. And yeah, there are tax benefits that I'm missin' out on, perhaps, but is it really that important? Is it really worth my time? Is it really, like, is it really worth it to me to have those headaches just to have a little bit of a tax writeoff? But we did the math for us and we did what makes sense for us, and that was to no longer own our home, is to just be a tenant and have the freedom to, like, if we don't like the neighborhood anymore, we can choose not to renew our lease and we can move around if we want. Like, for us, that was the freedom we wanted to have. And we had that conversation. We made that decision for ourselves, outside of other pressures.
- [Stuart] Yeah. And certainly in Europe, especially in Italy and southern areas of France, which I know about personally, the rate of home ownership is much, much lower than in the UK and North America. And it's never been a problem. And also, even here in the UK at the moment, we're seeing the next generation, so sort of my children who are in their early 20s, very few of these people are gonna get on the housing ladder, simply because of the house price inflation that we've seen in the last three decades, means they simply can't afford to get those mortgages. And so, of course they're gonna be renting. So we're seeing a shift away from ownership and towards renting their own home. I've got a friend who, her husband and their kids spend most of their year house-sitting for other people around the world. So you never know where they're gonna be. She runs her business from her laptop. And right now, they're somewhere glorious, in Asia, house-sitting somebody's house on a beach.
- [Kenyon] (laughs) That sounds horrible!
- [Stuart] Yeah, absolutely. And they're not even paying rent. They're gettin' free accommodation to look after this person's house while they live in it. So, I'm not sure it's a lifestyle I could cope with
'cause I like knowing where my car is parked and where (laughs) I'm coming back to from one year to the next. But for them it works. And I think your question about, what is the definition of success, who told you that that was success? The first unit of my how-to set up your own business, is what is your definition of success? And when I was teaching at the Henley Business School, I had these two guys come to me. What's your definition of success? We want a house by the river Thames, looking over the river, and we want a Ferrari on the drive. Okay, that's cool, you know, that's a financial definition of success, we can work with that. And what's your business idea? Well, we're gonna start a Chinese takeaway restaurant. And we had to gently break it to them that the business that they were thinking of running was never gonna spin off enough cash to meet their financial requirements. But hey, it was a fun exercise. But the definition of success isn't just financial. You talked about having your daughter. Certainly, your time with your family, time playing golf, or whatever it is that you want to do, is just as important as money in the bank.
- [Kenyon] Yeah, absolutely. My definition of success is to have enough money and enough time to drive racecars. My brother used to own and field and drive our own racecar back in the mid-2000s. And while it would be fun to kind of relive those glory days, I'm to the point where I don't think I want to own my own racecar. I just wanna show up and drive and go home at the end of the night. And my daughter wants to get into Go-Kart racing too, so I wanna have time to do that. So we tend to think of success on a monetary sense. What you beautifully said there was that, hey, we also have to factor in the time, like, where do we spend our time? Like, we can make money, but we spend time. And I think people have that backwards a lot of times, is that we make and spend money like we have a very limited supply of it, and we spend our time like we have an unlimited amount of it. And I think we have that backwards.
- [Stuart] Oh yeah. Especially, well, I'm gonna say this out loud, I'm currently sittin' in my vehicle on my way home from the funeral of a friend of mine who died recently from cancer way before her time. And you know, what I would give for another opportunity to sit down and have dinner with her and her family, or what her children would give to have their mum see them get married, which they'll never have, or to see their children, to see her grandchildren, which they'll never have. No amount of money can compensate. And you're right. I've made and lost money, I've had successful businesses and unsuccessful businesses. But actually, an hour I spend having a meal with somebody, you know, if it's a bad meal, I don't ever get to reclaim that hour. I can't get my hour back. No returns on time spent. And so, your sense that we have that reversed, I absolutely agree with. Time is the single most precious thing we have. And to spend it with somebody is an incredibly generous gift.
- [Kenyon] Yeah. The biggest thing that I've found with starting businesses are the creative ways that you can leverage time so much more, leverage time a lot better than we used to in the past. And that's what technology has brought to us. A lot of the automation and the opportunities that you give to other people through virtual assistance and things like that. You can really delegate and really start to get your time back. And that's what I've learned with starting businesses, are these various ways that you can really leverage technology at a very low cost (laughs) to get your time back. And I would rather pay somebody to mow my lawn these days than I would to spend my time mowin' the lawn. (laughs) And you know, I'm givin' an opportunity to that young kid down the street to earn some money, and I get my time back. Like, I'm really bringin' that idea onboard these days. And it's freeing and it's really fulfilling to help a kid down the street, you know, save a little money for a car or whatever he wants. You know, and I mean, it's really game-changing.
- [Stuart] Yeah, absolutely. And my wife and I sort of did a similar set of decisions. We have a cleaner, and I'm actually embarrassed to say this, my shirts get ironed by somebody else. I pay them to do that. And the amount of time that saves me, the amount of stress, I don't worry about, have I got a shirt that's clean and ironed? Somebody else's problem. I've paid them to do that, they've got an income. But I actually really enjoy mowing my lawn. So that's a job that I keep for myself. I put my headphones in. I listen to a podcast for the 45 minutes it takes me to mow the lawn. And that's kind of me time. So you're absolutely right. There are tasks that we can and should outsource, and there are tasks that we can then choose to keep to us because we enjoy them.
- [Kenyon] Yeah. And you know, one of the biggest mindset shifts we had to do, at least for me and my wife, was like, hey, one of the big thing we did was start having groceries delivered. And that sounds like, you might listen to that and that sounds like, very elitist, or (laughs) you know, very snobby, maybe? But you know, you need to get over that hurdle of, you know, the picture that that paints to the outside world. It's like, yes, people are gonna find a way to criticize you and, you know, poke at your success, so to speak. And they're gonna find it one way or another. So don't compromise your time and, you know, where you wanna spend your time because of the image that it projects to the world, I guess is what I'm tryin' to say there.
- [Stuart] Yeah, absolutely. Make the decision that maximizes you for you and your family, whilst being environmentally aware. You know, we don't wanna be throwing too much plastic into the ocean, or any plastic into the ocean. But it's making decisions that are positive rather than being drifted along by fashion or public opinion. Well Kenyon, that's been an amazing amount of time slip past in a really interesting conversation. So thank you so much for your time and your contribution to the podcast. I will, of course, put your contact details and your podcast links in the show notes so people can get in touch with you and listen to your episodes of your podcast, which I certainly found interesting as I've been preparing for the interview.
- [Kenyon] Awesome, cool.
- [Stuart] Thank you once again for you time.
- [Kenyon] Yeah, awesome. I was, this, I agree, this was a very interesting conversation. And awesome to connect with you and your audience. And yeah, feel free to reach out to me if this conversation struck your interest. And you know, I always like connectin' with new people, so feel free to reach out.
- [Stuart] Thanks very much. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Great Escape Podcast. You can find other episodes at all the usual places, on iTunes, Stitcher, and Spotify, or at the website, And if you'd like to contact me to talk about any element of this episode or other I've covered, please go to, and you can find all the way of getting hold of me there. And if you're stuck in a situation and you can't find the way out, please go there, send me a message, and let's see how we can work together to get you unstuck and moving forward with your life again. Please to share this podcast with your friends and family, other people you think might appreciate it. And comment on episodes or send me a message. I'd love to pick up the conversation there.
Kenyon's website is here

The Great Escape titles music was created by Darren Reddick


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