Great Escape Podcast episode 19 - Kenny Weiss - stress is just fear and we bring most of it with us from childhood

great escape Aug 09, 2019

- [Stuart] In this episode, I'm talking to Kenny Weiss, who has founded The Greatness Movement, which I have to say, Kenny, is a name I just love. There's no subtlety about that. And your own story mirrors some of mine in a number of ways with struggling with mental health and addiction and various other things. So Kenny, tell us about your life before that process kicked in.
- [Kenny] Sure. First of all, thanks for having me. I'll try and give you the, I guess the CliffNotes, Readers Digest version if they have those out in England, in your part of the world. But ever since I was a kid, I've just always had this weird ability. I could walk in a room and see and feel people's trauma. I've heard people use a lot of different names for it. I don't know what it is, but I don't really care what you name it. It's just something I always had. And what really kinda changed my life is I was 10 years old. I woke up in the middle of the night to use the bathroom, opened up the door, and there's my mom passed out naked on the toilet. She's an alcoholic. Now, my parents were 16 and
18 when they were married.
21 and 23 with four kids. So, my parents were kids. You know, my mom had been abused and grew up in an alcoholic family. My dad was physically abused. So, you have two broken people. We teach nothing in any culture about how to be a parent or how to have relationships. My mom should've been a crack addict, you know, that young with four kids. So, but because we don't teach any of this stuff, my parents couldn't help me either. So from there, I became an alcoholic, sex addict, spending addict, sugar addict, tobacco addict, love addict. As you said, I went through two horrific divorces. One where she was physically and verbally abusive. A bankruptcy, I played two professional sports, both hockey and golf, that I see now I never wanted to play. And ultimately, I spent three days holed up in my apartment contemplating suicide. I was trying to write a note to my kids and I could describe how much pain I was in. That was easy. But when it came to justifying the choice, I had a problem because since my early 20s, I'd been researching, one, why am I such a trainwreck? My life's a mess. What causes all this? Why do I have this ability to feel and what do I do with all that? So whether it was counseling or reading or seminars, I studied my tail off for, god, at that point, it'd been almost 30 years. And the problem was as I went to justify the choice, I knew too much psychology. Everything I'd write, I'm like, ugh, that's transference, that's codependence. Like I couldn't come up with a justification that wouldn't leave all my pain at my kids' feet. Another realization hit me at that point of after all these years of studying and reading and working with counselors, why am I here? Like there's something inherently wrong with that. I've worked my tail off to overcome addictions and all these different things, yet I'm still here. And I realized there's a tremendous gap in the personal development, mental health, whatever it is you wanna call it, field. So I went back into my office and I wrote down, I wanna come up with a process that nobody else has discovered that will fundamentally change society. Well, that became, at that point, I had these instincts because of my ability to feel, about why myself and others do what they do, and I doubled down really on the science, how the brain and body works. And all of a sudden, I found proof, connections that I haven't heard anybody ever make, and I'm like, I can't be this smart. You know? I mean, maybe there's some of that. Maybe I've just, you know, that's what we all do. We build on other people, so maybe there's some of that, but I do think there's some fear around talking about, you know, there's a cycle I've discovered that I write about in my book, and I think people are afraid to talk about. And I'll just give you one instance of how I found something deeper. I just got an email on LinkedIn from a guy from New Zealand. And he ran across a video of mine on stress a year ago. And he wrote me this long email of,
"You have no idea how much you've changed my life
"and my friends' lives,
"and so when you see those books bought in New Zealand,
"it's from me and everyone I've talked to." I've always wondered, I get these reports. I'm like who the hell found me in New Zealand? But everyone talks about stress and they don't give you what's really going on. This is the gap. The clinical definition for both stress and anxiety is fear. Whenever you feel stressed or anxious, you're in white hot fear. Well, nobody wants to say that 'cause think of it. If I tell you I'm stressed, what does it mean? It probably means, we have this cultural dynamic, it means I work more than you, I'm a better husband or wife, I do so much. I'm a great parent, I'm stressed. In other words, it's a falsely empowering term. But if I tell you I'm scared and afraid, oh my god, we can't admit that. Well, the next step is is how does everyone describe fear, what to do with fear? Well, think of the Nike commercial. Just Do It, right? In other words, use anger to push yourself through it. Well, anger is always a mask for fear. I've never heard anyone ever describe one, that stress is fear, and two, what fear is. Fear in any situation is always either the fear of rejection, the fear of inadequacy, in other words, I don't think I have the skills, tools or knowledge to do something, or the fear of powerlessness. So my clients or people that read my book or come across my stuff, now you know whenever you're stressed or anxious, wait a minute, I give you a whole list of questions and a whole process to go through so you can identify if it's rejection. That's a self-esteem issue. I'm looking outside of myself for validation. Inadequacy is skills, tools, and knowledge. That's the easiest fear to fix. So like us trying to get onto this show, I felt a bit inadequate. The link didn't work. I don't have the skills, tools, and knowledge to use your platform. Well, that's an easy one. I could have gone and researched how this platform works. The fear will go away. The most difficult and the most common is powerlessness. And that comes from childhood. We were never allowed to say no. Think of it. If our parents gave a demand, we had to give up who we were to create attachment. And so, we don't know how to say no. Almost all powerlessness is the inability to say no. There's much more to it. I don't wanna take up your whole show
'cause that's what it would take to eat through these, but there's just some little examples of things I found that I haven't seen anybody, whether it's a therapist, a medical doctor, a coach like myself, anybody ever talk about. And so, the people that tend to gravitate towards my stuff, they've done all the other stuff. Their life is improved, they're getting better, they've seen value, but like me, they're like, wait a minute, there's more to this. What is it? And they find my stuff and they go oh my god, this guy talks about the stuff nobody wants to talk about. So, that's kind of the basic story in how I got here in front of you.
- Okay. You kinda skipped a whole transformational mindset piece where at one point you're sitting in your office thinking, I'm going to take my own life. And you know, I've been there.
- Sure.
- So I understand that one. And in a way, you described how trying to write that suicide note to your children. Now, I was a coward. I couldn't even write the suicide note. I was just out to go do it. I dodged that whole issue. And you said it was because you couldn't find the right words to do it that you decided not to do it? Was that what led to that?
- [Kenny] Yeah. Again, what saved my life was all the personal growth work I'd done. I couldn't outrun the truth of how I was avoiding, still, even all those years of recovery work, I was avoiding aspects of it. I didn't wanna face it.
- Yeah.
- [Kenny] And that's, I don't care whether your business is suffering, your relationship is suffering, it's all trauma-base. The evidence is overwhelming. It's environment, it's not genetic. It happened in your childhood. And that's everybody. Over 80% of people say, "Oh, my childhood was great." I'll ask them one question, and here's the question. When you were a child, if you ever felt sad, angry or scared at something your parents did or said, in that moment, could you ever voice your opinion or your feelings? Not a single person has ever said,
"Oh my god, yeah, we could talk about it." No, our parents squash us. And so we all have sacrificed authenticity, who we really are, for attachment. And that creates trauma and then we relive it constantly. That's the cycle. Every choice we ever make, we're reliving our trauma because in that moment, we became powerless, all right? And so, to reclaim that power, the reason we all choose such bad marriages and everything is because we get our power back 'cause think of it. Like my first wife with the abuse, I see now I picked her because she reminded me of the abuse I went through my older brother and my dad. But see, I chose it this time. I couldn't do anything about it as a child. That's the false empowerment we all seek. And so, I was formulating these ideas and understandings, and that's what I ran up against of man, I'm creating my own pain, and I'm trying to dump it on my kids. I'm still running from it. I can't do that. I just... So, that's why The Greatness Movement started is people don't realize, because we don't teach this stuff, we're doing it to ourselves. And that, I was like, I realize now I have no other option. I have enough, I had built up enough self-esteem through the work I'd done, to recognize okay, I think one of your questions is belief, wait a minute, I can do this.
- Yeah.
- And that's--
- That's a key thing.
- Yeah, yeah. And the only way you gain that self-esteem is by confronting your denial of these truths of oh my god, I'm not who I think I am. I am actually the sole creator of all this. And when you are able to start accepting those parts of yourself, you find your authenticity, your self-esteem. And see, I'd gathered enough that I could absorb the blow, the realization, the confronting of my denial that on my god, it's not my ex-wife, it's not all these horrible things that have happened to me, it's me and I have to face that. And the only way I can outrun this suicide and all this pain is literally, I have to become an expert in my pain. That's it. And I can sit with anyone, and in two seconds, it's universal. What I've discovered is not a personality type. It's a human dynamic every single person lives their life by. They're just completely unaware of it
'cause we don't teach it.
- [Stuart] Yeah, absolutely. And so for you, that belief that you could make that change actually came out of that understanding that something had to change. It all happened almost in the same moment for you.
- [Kenny] Yeah, it was, exactly. That's a great way of saying it. You know, kind of two or three of your sentinel questions happened in one moment.
- Yeah.
- [Kenny] They weren't separate events. They were a realization, but they were borne out of years of investigating how hurt I am, how broken I am, how imperfect I am. And the slow acceptance of yes, this was created in childhood. I'm not responsible for that. But I use an analogy in my book. I talk about, you know, if you're walking down the street doing nothing and you're shot by a sniper, you have a choice. You can lay there and claim the victim and go,
"I didn't deserve this.
"This isn't my fault." And you can lay on the sidewalk and bleed out and die. And that's what most people choose in life. But the bottom line is you're sitting there with a hole in your leg, bleeding. It's still your responsibility to get up, find a way to the hospital, get the bullet extracted, and do the physical therapy work. But our culture promotes laying on the sidewalk because most of us aren't taught how to get up off the sidewalk, get to the hospital, and get through the recovery process. It's all placed on genetics and disease. Like it's all this stuff that oh, there's nothing I can do, it just happened to me, and I have no resources. And that's just not true. It's a false narrative, but look at what I'm asking people to give up.
- Yeah, I mean, we become addicted to our pain. We become addicted to therapy. And I remember that moment for myself when I was walking down the corridor to my therapist's room, and she was walking along in front of me. And I was looking at the back of her head, and I just thought, you know what? We could spend months going 'round and 'round this circle and nothing's gonna happen. I'm not gonna get better. I'm gonna end up back in this place until I actually start really engaging. You know, she was a good therapist. But I have to engage with the process in order to get better. We all know somebody who, kind of professional therapy patient. You know, I exist because I go to therapy almost.
- [Kenny] With transference bond, I didn't have a consoling parent, so now I just use the therapist, but yeah.
- [Stuart] Yeah, hey it's a whole lot more expensive.
- [Kenny] Yeah, but I still don't have to confront me and confront my denial and all the ways I'm so, and that's what I mean. Most people, it's a subconscious thing. Like they don't, no one knows about, well, not no one, but very few people know about the cycle I discovered. The people that find it, they're like oh my god, this explains everything. Whereas I've been to all these events from these great people that we all know and yes, it felt good and stuff, but it never really got me anywhere.
- [Stuart] Yeah, there's a lot of very short-term change.
- [Kenny] Yeah, I call them adrenaline events. I tell everyone to go 'cause you're gonna learn something, and you're gonna walk out feeling amazing. And every person afterwards is gonna tell you what a great experience it was. I want you to have those. But if you want to recover, if you want to be what I call your greatest version of yourself, that model will never work. This process takes time. You're not gonna transform your life in a three day weekend like they all promise you. It can't happen.
- No, and for those people for whom that transformation does happen, they've already made most of the journey by the time they get to that weekend. That weekend was something that tipped them over the edge rather than that got them up the mountain in the first place.
- [Kenny] Yeah, or it just opened up an aspect of it, but they're not done. Our brain cannot process all the information they give you in a three day weekend. It's overwhelming. You just can't absorb it.
- [Stuart] So you've gone back to your office. You've begun this thinking around The Greatness Movement. And what was it that led you, or how long was that process from I have this beginnings of an idea to where you actually could see where it was gonna go to?
- [Kenny] It was about a year. I went in hibernation. Literally, I didn't talk to people. I'd just go for walks. And I started asking myself questions. We all, whenever we're in pain, we kind of ask the same questions. Why, you know. And I started going, like really challenging myself, and asking the most absurd question you could ever ask. Instead of like why am I here, why aren't I? Why aren't I here? Why isn't this great? Like who asks that? When you're in massive pain, that's the last question you'd ask. What do I like about this? What do you mean? I like nothing. Really? And so I started to challenge that, and it was like literally epiphany after epiphany. And then I really, like I said, I got into brain and body research. And all of a sudden, I started finding studies and you know, understanding more about how the brain and body talk to each other. And I'm like oh my god, I'm dead on. And how has nobody ever put this together or talked about this? Think of addiction. Not everybody's, you know, alcohol, they say, is addictive. Well, why isn't everybody an alcoholic? That's trauma-based. You know, there are studies on crystal meth. Not everybody gets addicted even though it's the most addictive drug out there. So, there are all these truths, but again, we have to give up that victim culture that says it's outside of me. And also that parental dynamic, we're all raised, oh my god, my parents are perfect. And I talk about, you know, that's part of the shame and denial aspect of my cycle I talk about. The only way to recover is we have to feel the rage. We have to feel the hurt and pain that everyone suffered in childhood. And until you go through that process, you don't find recovery.
- Yeah, and I think it's something, especially for men, both in US culture and UK and European culture, there's a huge suppression of being angry because what we see in the worst of manhood, and I know we have lots of female listeners as well, but in the worst of manhood, you see angry men behaving atrociously. And then, there is no safe way for a man to be angry about his childhood or to be angry about pain he suffered in other ways because suddenly you get labeled as one of these atrociously behaving men, especially in politics at the moment, both sides of the Atlantic. Lemme say that without being too political.
- [Kenny] Sure, well there's this huge kind of misunderstanding, I talk about this a lot. With the shift in women's equality, which I'm all for, what you're seeing now is women struggling just like men. You guys probably never saw this show, being in London or England, but there's a show here growing up called All in the Family. Guy named Archie Bunker and his wife. And she was completely submissive. He denigrated her. It was the typical 1950s, 1960s. Man rules the house, completely abused her, okay? That's what my generation grew up with. Well, look at TV commercials and movies and everything now. I don't know what it's like where you live, but here in the US, every single sitcom, movie, commercial on anything, the man is a complete buffoon and an idiot, and the woman completely denigrates him and belittles him. What we've done in society in our attempt to elevate women is we've just stepped on men, instead of both sides looking at their pain and their issues and growing together, they take sides and they step on each other. I don't know if you guys have the boss bitch movement out there, but there's a woman who wrote a book, you know, all the women are gonna be bosses now. Well, her whole book is about how to shut down your feelings. It's like the guide to the 1950s male.
- [Stuart] And we have, you know, when Margaret Thatcher became the first female prime minister in the UK, there was a great deal of observation that actually she behaved very much like a man in order to make that work.
- [Kenny] I haven't heard anyone ever bring this topic up, but you know, anyway, it's fascinating for me to watch.
- [Stuart] Coming back to your process, the journey you've been on, you said it took you about a year to work out how life needed to become.
- Yeah.
- [Stuart] How long, or are you indeed, are you still on that journey?
'Cause life is a journey. It's very rare that we end up in a destination and say, I have arrived. How long was it before you began to feel like life was actually going in the direction you wanted it to?
- [Kenny] You're right, the process never ends. You know, that's one of the myths in personal development therapy, whatever you want, is everyone's, oh, in six months, I'll be better. No, I've been at this for decades. What does happen is you get the coping skills so that when situations come up, you can move through them and not lose yourself. But yes, during that year, because one of the big changes I talk about versus everyone else is what people don't realize is nearly every single choice you ever make isn't thought-based. It's feeling-based. It's how our brain and body works. And so, everyone's out there promoting positive thinking, which for the most part, is a waste of time. You have to generate feelings, belief. One of your questions is about belief. Well, think of it. Did you ever play sports growing up?
- [Stuart] I did a bit, and I was really bad at it.
- [Kenny] Okay, did you, you've all taken a test, right, in school?
- Yeah, we all done that.
- [Kenny] Sure, do you remember the experience of you've studied, gone to class, and you're walking towards the class before the test comes up, and you just know you're gonna ace it. You're like, I've got this. I can feel it. Like you're talking positive, you're feeling positive, you go in and you nail it, right? We've all had that experience. Now conversely, a week later, another test, you've done the same preparation, but as you walk toward that class, you're filled with dread. You're like, oh no. Oh, I gotta get sick, I gotta get outta here. This isn't gonna go well. Then you use what I call the Nike philosophy. Come on, you can do it. Start talking positive, right? You go in and you bomb it. Well, that's another thing I've never heard anyone talk about. I've read books on belief. Nobody's ever explained the process and I just did it. What was the difference? Belief is when your feelings and your thoughts line up. Trying to talk yourself into belief is a waste of time. You have to shift the way you feel. Yet nobody teaches you how to shift the way you feel. That's what my whole book is about, and that's the process I went through in that year was shifting the way I feel, and recognizing, becoming an expert when any feeling came in, it created a thought that was negative or whatever, and then I could dive into that feeling, rework it, and move through it. And so, to further answer your answer for gosh, two plus years, nothing's really affected me. Right now, as we're doing this, I'm going through this deep growth process. I've recognized in the last couple weeks, oh my god, there's some hidden pain I wasn't aware of. And so, literally over our Independence, the Fourth of July about five days, most of my clients rescheduled. I pretty much spent five days just sitting in my house, contemplating, just trying to work through it. But see, again, because of the denial self-esteem process, I can sit there in that loneliness, emptiness, abandonment, pain, fear, all of that, and work the process. I now have the emotional stability to look at myself. And so, does this feel bad, is this bad? No, I have freedom now. I can, one, admit it to you, all these different things. I don't have to hide behind it anymore. So, that's the relief that comes.
- [Stuart] And actually you bring up another question there. You talked about being okay in your own company, which a lot of us aren't. But also, how did the role of community help you through this journey as well? Have you got a good community around you or did you have to build it from scratch or rebuild it from scratch?
'Cause often when there's marriage break up, you end up losing touch with a bunch of friends as well.
- [Kenny] You have to rebuild it. As you grow and those around you choose not to grow, there's just a natural separation. There's a loss. I don't consider. See, people use terms like that, a loss. Wait, what am I losing? Pain, dysfunction, agony. I'm sorry, where's the loss?
- [Stuart] I'm gaining new connections.
- [Kenny] Yeah, so, that's one of our fears of doing any of this work. Oh my god, what am I gonna lose? And I'm like, yeah see, that's a feeling. Remember, that goes back to that attachment, authenticity bind in childhood. Wait a minute, if I become authentic, if I go find me, if I go do this work that Kenny's asking me to do, what am I gonna lose? Attachment. I'll sacrifice anything for attachment. Well, the paradox is as we pursue our authenticity, what we actually find is the reattachment of ourselves and authentic attachment with our spouse, former spouse, whoever it may be, or new friends or whatever. All that we've been seeking throughout life, we get, but we've all, literally almost everything we've been taught in life, the answer's in the opposite. Just nobody knows it.
- Yeah, absolutely. I certainly in terms of my first marriage was so afraid of this disconnect that I stayed, and it's gonna work, it's gonna be fine, it's gonna be okay.
- [Kenny] And that would've shown up. I don't want to do that to you, but that's a childhood dynamic. You learned that.
- Oh yeah, oh yeah.
- [Kenny] With mom and-or dad or both. And so that's why you picked her to relive it. Here's what people don't realize. I use the analogy of a 3D movie. If you've ever watched a 3D movie without the glasses, everyone knows that experience. It's distorted, the colors are off, it's all windy and twisty, but you kinda know what's going on. What people don't realize is every single choice you make, your friends, your hobbies, your partners, your careers, I know by your career what your childhood was like. Literally every single choice you ever make, you're reliving your trauma right in front of your eyes, screaming back at you what you need to address, overcome, and forgive yourself for. But nobody knows it because why? They're missing the glasses. Well, my book and The Greatness Movement, the programs I run, they're the glasses. And so all of a sudden, you go oh my god, this makes sense. And I've never seen a personal development program show you that, clearly. Like that was the key moment for me when I finished the book and I sat there and I started to argue with the cycle I wrote, I discovered. And started throwing arguments at it, and I got chills
'cause I went, oh my god, I don't care what you say, whatever argument you throw at it, I just give you your words back and go, how does trauma work? How does fear work? How does shame work? How does denial work? You're just describing, do you hear? You're describing your process. Your whatever judgment or argument with me is your own argument with yourself and you're literally talking to yourself like that 3D movie. And that's, anyone's who's kinda challenged me, I just give them their words back. I literally, I don't have to explain anything. They're literally talking to themselves, trying to help themselves out of it. They just don't know it.
- [Stuart] And I think that's partly where I came to with the Six Steps to Freedom. It was like you're gonna bang into this the whole time until you work through this. So in a way, we've come at it from a different angle. You've gone into a bit more depth in terms of our childhood trauma stuff. I'm kind of at a higher level.
- Yeah.
- With that. But it's effectively, we get to pick. And you spoke earlier about how the sniper. I mean, I crashed a light aircraft, I'm lying in a field. My leg's in pieces. Nobody's coming to help me.
- Yeah.
- [Stuart] You know, I can lie there and scream all I like, and nothing is happening.
- [Kenny] How devastating, first of all.
- [Stuart] Well, it was my fault. It was a bad landing. I get to blame nobody.
- [Kenny] I would say that if you're in a field. At any rate, my point being, those moments are horrifically scary.
- [Stuart] Yeah, is this thing about to catch on fire and there is nobody gonna get to me in time to stop that. And actually, it was one of the thing that the, in the UK, it's 999, in the US, 911. In Europe, 112. The emergency telephone operator, she said,
"For somebody who's just crashed a light aircraft,
"you seem remarkably calm." And I said, "Well you know, it's all stopped moving
"and it's not on fire." There's nothing right now.
- [Kenny] You know, my response would've been,
"Honey, you should've seen my childhood."
- [Stuart] This is a piece of cake compared to--
- [Kenny] People in those stressful situations are so calm is because they've grown up with such trauma and such fear, they don't even register it. And so most people are completely unaware how much pain and fear and trauma they're in because it becomes a regulatory system that they've grown accustomed to. They're just not aware.
- [Stuart] Yeah, and I think that's certainly evident when we see statistics. You know, recently, a stat came out in the UK where under the age of 55, suicide is the single largest cause of death for men under the age of 55. Because they're carrying this trauma and this inability to address it, ability to talk to anybody else about it, and it's one of the reasons why I'm so open about where I've been just to try and help guys. You know, it's okay, you can talk about the fact. And women. You feel like life makes no sense.
- [Kenny] Yeah, that's why I started The Greatness Movement. It has two purposes. The first one is, I say this all the time, I don't know if the same is true in Europe, but I'll say this in speeches. I'm like, I find it fascinating that your hair, something that no matter how badly it gets butchered, we demand, at least here in the US, that somebody have a license to cut our hair. The government won't even allow you near somebody's hair unless you have a license. But to be a parent, to have a relationship, emotions, not a single one of us ever takes a class on it. Now I'm not advocating the government make us do that. I'm just saying isn't that fascinating? You can butcher hair and it grows back fine, but the three things that determine everything in our life, nobody knows about, nobody wants to know about. They all go into the denial and oh, I learned from parents. And I'll say this like I set people up in a speech. I'm like, let me cut your hair. And they're like, no, you don't have experience. I'm like, what if I told you I've spent my life watching people do it, is that enough? And they're like, no, I want you to take a class. And I'm like, isn't that funny? That's how we learn to parent. We all go well, I watched my parents. I watched movies. We're perfectly fine learning that way. So that's why I wanna give people the skills, tools, and knowledge and the second more fundamental piece is to break down that fear, that bias, that denial in society that oh my god, we need to go learn about this stuff, we need to face it because that's the real problem is what would society be like if it was perfectly okay, male or female, for all of us to go become experts in the pain we all feel and suffer? You wanna talk about any political, you've mentioned politics, guns, abortion, border issues, whatever, all you're seeing is stored childhood trauma. They're not even addressing the cause. You wanna deal with those issues, go deal with people's pain. Those issues go away.
- [Stuart] I think that's really true. And we see it with the whole Brexit thing.
- [Kenny] Yeah, yeah, I've been watching some documentaries on that. I'm not a, but I've been interested in it.
- [Stuart] Yeah, it's absolutely fascinating what they complete, whichever side of the argument you're on.
- Sure.
- It's a complete mess.
- Yeah.
- And it's because politicians are playing out their childhood traumas.
- [Kenny] Yeah, Trump or Clinton. Everyone calls Trump awful. Of course he's awful. Well, I mean, look at Clinton. Was she any better? No. Why would anyone seek an office like that? Because they're in tremendous pain. That's what makes somebody seek politics, you know? They're just trying to get the power back they didn't have. And if you know Trump's history, if you know Clinton's history, they're just massively broken, hurt people. That's heartbreaking. It doesn't condone anyone's behavior. I'm not saying they're not responsible for that, let them off the hook. But all you're seeing is a two-year-old child screaming how hurt they are. Well, that's heartbreaking.
- [Stuart] Yeah, and they're screaming how hurt they are with big toys.
- Amen to that. That affect millions.
- Millions of people.
- [Kenny] Yeah, exactly. So that's why I think, I wonder what society would be like if we turned towards these things, if we got rid of the stigma, bias, and fear. I wonder what would happen. And there's always the law of unintended consequences. You could make things worse. But it's something we haven't tried, and so, that's why I started The Greatness Movement. It couldn't hurt. It seems like the next best option, to me at least.
- [Stuart] Hey, well, let's roll this journey on together and see what we can find at the end of it. Kenny--
- And God bless your part in what you're doing, too.
- [Stuart] Kenny, thank you so much for your contribution on this episode. Really fascinating story. And for, as I said earlier, for those people who are interested in your book and your work, we've got the notes in the show notes so that they can get those. And the book I read whilst on a flight to Australia. It didn't take anything like the whole of the flight to read. It's a really good read. And it really will help you understand why you've made some of the choices that you've made in your life, why you are, in essence, why we're all a slave of the traumas that we suffered as children. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Great Escape Podcast. You can find other episodes at all the usual places on iTunes, Stitch, or in Spotify, or at the website, And if you'd like to contact me to talk about any element of this episode or others I've covered, please go to and you can find all the ways of getting hold of me there. And if you're stuck in a situation and you can't find the way out, please go there, send me a message, and let's see how we can work together to get you unstuck and moving forward with your life again. Please do share this podcast with your friends and family, other people you think might appreciate it, and comment on episodes or send me a message. I'd love to keep the conversation going.

Kenny's Greatness Movement website:

The Great Escape titles music was created by Darren Reddick

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